40 replies to this topic

[Lycan]

well i'd like enough time in order to experience everything the world/s have to offer in all time periods. once i'd accomplish that i'd welcome death as my last experience

when do you say stop? take the analogy of drugs. You try a bit and you do so until you require more; something stronger. Every addict says that they'll be able to quit when they want etc. you get the idea
My point is, this is the golden age of technology, which currently advances faster than people can use them. With the Higgs boson supposedly found, Robotics and Ai teetering on the edge of OMG-terminator, the future is going to be crazy. So I say again... when do you say stop?

When there is nothing or no-one to stop you living another 1000 years (if you wanted to), and bearing in mind that a savings accound over a couple of thousand years will look quite neat,it will get harder and harder to say "now I'm happy to go".

I personally think living forever is cool, but there is something in my mind that keeps saying no. Like in the film "out of time", does everyone live forever or just you? because that would change the answer quite a bit no?

[Murum]

when do you say stop? take the analogy of drugs. You try a bit and you do so until you require more; something stronger. Every addict says that they'll be able to quit when they want etc. you get the idea
My point is, this is the golden age of technology, which currently advances faster than people can use them. With the Higgs boson supposedly found, Robotics and Ai teetering on the edge of OMG-terminator, the future is going to be crazy. So I say again... when do you say stop?

When there is nothing or no-one to stop you living another 1000 years (if you wanted to), and bearing in mind that a savings accound over a couple of thousand years will look quite neat,it will get harder and harder to say "now I'm happy to go".

I personally think living forever is cool, but there is something in my mind that keeps saying no. Like in the film "out of time", does everyone live forever or just you? because that would change the answer quite a bit no?

actuall usefull experiences

and there comes a point were you realize that every age is a golden age lycon before our age there was another golden(industrial age or w/e) and with every civilization there is a peak and a downfall i guess my end is at the downfall of the human race

and if its about death of the people nearby you i cannot say much about this. death is part of life if you were to live forever you would have to accept the people near you are not gonna be able to follow the path you are but will be able to follow their path to the end there is this side of the coin

whos to say that if you werent going to live forever you would be able to enjoy a full life the the people you care about

like the poem from "The Gray"

“Once more into the fray
Into the last good fight I’ll ever know…”

My penance piety does not suffice
As the fray takes toll upon my mortal
As the dagger slices and dices

The fort crumbles…

Hope and pray I be reborn
To dive into the fray one other
To face demons whose fire I stoke
That my soul for peace to have

My heart for ants to feed

Yet death hath become this life I boast
All good fights have come to this
The moment on which I stand
The weapon upon my hand

Broken sheath under my feet

On this day I am born
On this day I die
I must hope and pray

That one day I learn to hope and pray

Eyes gaze beyond the clouds
For an omen I might see

This fort mine blessing and curse.

Immortality it might be
The bright light that cometh my way

Into the last good night I’ll ever see.

“…Live and die on this day

Live and Die on this day.”

Edited by Cr0ssfire, 16 July 2012 - 04:29 pm.

[Lycan]

You know I'm back to normal on these forums when you see an essay with my name on it

actuall usefull experiences

and there comes a point were you realize that every age is a golden age lycon before our age there was another golden(industrial age or w/e) and with every civilization there is a peak and a downfall i guess my end is at the downfall of the human race

and if its about death of the people nearby you i cannot say much about this. death is part of life if you were to live forever you would have to accept the people near you are not gonna be able to follow the path you are but will be able to follow their path to the end there is this side of the coin

You said before: "well i'd like enough time in order to experience everything the world/s have to offer in all time periods. once i'd accomplish that i'd welcome death as my last experience". If you agree that every age is/has a golden age, wouldn't that mean you would never finish having "enough time" to experience everything, since there will always be something new on the horizon, including the new golden age etc? and in turn, does that also mean you won't really be able to accomplish everything (because there will always be that one-more-thing), and therefore won't actually get to embrace death until the world itself does?

I personally think living longer is better, but we shouldn't be able to control it i.e. it shouldn't be unlimited and we choose when we finally go. If our ages were increased to around 300-400 years (collectively), I can see us having better lives, since there would be a bigger gap between growing up, becoming an adult, and the inevitable death combover. We'd be able to enjoy the fruits of our labour for longer, have longer relationships etc. and we as a race would be able to advance further with more time to ponder over problems, devise theories and invent marvels (or DC... either way).

With regards to your question "whos to say that if you werent going to live forever you would be able to enjoy a full life (with) the the people you care about", If we have short lives, we make the most of them. Like I said in a previous comment:
2000 years wouldn't be enough after a couple of "cycles" of 2 millenia. We have 24 hours in a day. Some people fit 2 jobs, a hobby, looking after kids (such as taking them to after-school clubs etc), and more things besides in those hours, while others barely manage to get out of bed, have something to eat and watch tv before they're drawing the curtains again.
There will inevitably be people who will say that they haven't had enough time after 2000 years, especially when that (length of lifetime) becomes the norm. Because we'll have more time at our disposal, we'll find crazier things to do with it (we'd be able to travel to other planets since at the moment, it would take at least a few generations in a single journey from Earth to the destination planet to be able to colonise it). We'd be making frequent trips to other planets (if we crack immortality it's not unusual to think we won't have space exploration working too), and those trips could take a couple of years of our lives now, but with 2000 years, what's 1 or 2?
Basically, that the longer our lives would be, the more rubbish we'd end up filling it with, procrastinating until we just manage to fit everything we need to in the time we have. The system we have now is designed to take our relatively short lives into consideration; school studies are a couple of years in each stage, we have a job for about 20-30 years, and then we prepare for combovers. If we had 1000 years to live, the education system would be designed so that we'd spend 100 years working, doing at least 15 subjects in depth etc. and then we'd have 200-300 years of work etc. (you get the picture). Even in this case, you'd have scool dropouts, and criminals etc. who'd spend the better part of 900 years wasting away, and would say they didn't have enough time to get their lives in order.

With shorter lives, we learn to make the most of the days we have: do well at school, so we can get a good job earlier, settle down and enjoy life as early as possible. Take people who have been diagnosed with cancer, or HIV etc. Some people refuse to let the illness beat them, and they make sure that the life they have left is lived to the full. You could say that they live more in that time period than people twice their age.

The middle ground here is a longer life (so you can do more), but a limit that you can't control (so you work towards that limit). Immortality, and being able to control the time of your death will always end badly.

[Murum]

You know I'm back to normal on these forums when you see an essay with my name on it



You said before: "well i'd like enough time in order to experience everything the world/s have to offer in all time periods. once i'd accomplish that i'd welcome death as my last experience". If you agree that every age is/has a golden age, wouldn't that mean you would never finish having "enough time" to experience everything, since there will always be something new on the horizon, including the new golden age etc? and in turn, does that also mean you won't really be able to accomplish everything (because there will always be that one-more-thing), and therefore won't actually get to embrace death until the world itself does?

I personally think living longer is better, but we shouldn't be able to control it i.e. it shouldn't be unlimited and we choose when we finally go. If our ages were increased to around 300-400 years (collectively), I can see us having better lives, since there would be a bigger gap between growing up, becoming an adult, and the inevitable death combover. We'd be able to enjoy the fruits of our labour for longer, have longer relationships etc. and we as a race would be able to advance further with more time to ponder over problems, devise theories and invent marvels (or DC... either way).

With regards to your question "whos to say that if you werent going to live forever you would be able to enjoy a full life (with) the the people you care about", If we have short lives, we make the most of them. Like I said in a previous comment:
2000 years wouldn't be enough after a couple of "cycles" of 2 millenia. We have 24 hours in a day. Some people fit 2 jobs, a hobby, looking after kids (such as taking them to after-school clubs etc), and more things besides in those hours, while others barely manage to get out of bed, have something to eat and watch tv before they're drawing the curtains again.
There will inevitably be people who will say that they haven't had enough time after 2000 years, especially when that (length of lifetime) becomes the norm. Because we'll have more time at our disposal, we'll find crazier things to do with it (we'd be able to travel to other planets since at the moment, it would take at least a few generations in a single journey from Earth to the destination planet to be able to colonise it). We'd be making frequent trips to other planets (if we crack immortality it's not unusual to think we won't have space exploration working too), and those trips could take a couple of years of our lives now, but with 2000 years, what's 1 or 2?
Basically, that the longer our lives would be, the more rubbish we'd end up filling it with, procrastinating until we just manage to fit everything we need to in the time we have. The system we have now is designed to take our relatively short lives into consideration; school studies are a couple of years in each stage, we have a job for about 20-30 years, and then we prepare for combovers. If we had 1000 years to live, the education system would be designed so that we'd spend 100 years working, doing at least 15 subjects in depth etc. and then we'd have 200-300 years of work etc. (you get the picture). Even in this case, you'd have scool dropouts, and criminals etc. who'd spend the better part of 900 years wasting away, and would say they didn't have enough time to get their lives in order.

With shorter lives, we learn to make the most of the days we have: do well at school, so we can get a good job earlier, settle down and enjoy life as early as possible. Take people who have been diagnosed with cancer, or HIV etc. Some people refuse to let the illness beat them, and they make sure that the life they have left is lived to the full. You could say that they live more in that time period than people twice their age.

The middle ground here is a longer life (so you can do more), but a limit that you can't control (so you work towards that limit). Immortality, and being able to control the time of your death will always end badly.

i though the topic was if we could live forever not if everyone could live forever
some people would most likely experience different a longer life
and am with the belief like i said at some point earth would probably reach its peak(human race) and after that its downfall and that's the end of the road
in regards to your sectioning a longer life to stages i.e learning working..... are you telling me that if you and yuo alone had 1000 would you do the things you said? sure if i had 1000 years or alot more than that i'd try to study every science try to work every job i'd do anything that would interest me the most at the time
and heck i get to watch every tv series and anime shows out there!

[Lycan]

i though the topic was if we could live forever not if everyone could live forever
Yes, the topic was "if you could live forever" implying a single person, but my view is that I wouldn't want to live longer (as in 1000 years longer), if I was the only one who did. If there was a new way to increase your life expectancy by 1000 years, and it was proven to work without side effects, and everyone took it, sure, I'd do it too - because society would adapt to the change with me. In the case of living forever? Absolutely not.

some people would most likely experience different a longer life
Again, I agree, people will have different experiences of long life, the same way some people are the head of a multi-billion pound organisation, while others are drug addicts and criminals. It obviously depends what you do with the time given to you. My view is, if someone can achieve something like becoming a multi-millionaire by 25, then another 975 years would be well worth living. If after even 100 years, a person still can't get an education, they should be shot, and their gift of life revoked.

and am with the belief like i said at some point earth would probably reach its peak(human race) and after that its downfall and that's the end of the road
Sure, that makes sense, but the thing I don't get, is in your original comment, you said that after you've experienced everything you can, you'll be happy to say "I'm ready to welcome death as my last experience". But will you be making that decision or would it be forced upon you when the human race falls?
My main concern is not the years, but the decision of whether to quit or not. Having that decision in your hands is wrong. If you were 100% genuine that you'd go after you'd seen all you want to see, would you even go after 50 years if you felt in your heart that you'd seen everything?

in regards to your sectioning a longer life to stages i.e learning working..... are you telling me that if you and yuo alone had 1000 would you do the things you said? sure if i had 1000 years or alot more than that i'd try to study every science try to work every job i'd do anything that would interest me the most at the time and heck i get to watch every tv series and anime shows out there!
That part of my comment was explaining how society would govern our lives to fit those years i.e. if everyone lived to 1000 (as in my previous comment), schools would be a LOT longer, we'd retire after hundreds of years of work, we'd get months and months off on holidays etc. There would be a lot more time to live, so necessary things like learning and working will go on for longer. This would in turn include things like having to study multiple (50+) subjects for A-Level etc. (ouch!)

If I was the only one to live 1000 years, I'd devote a large part of my life to travelling to another planet (since I'd be alive when I make it), or researching something, since I'd be able to devote so much of my time to it, that I'd be bound to make a difference. Of course I'd also play THOUSANDS of hours of guild wars 2, etc.

It's not so much the live longer bit, but the choice not to die when you should. By living forever, you take that choice into your own hands. It's the choice that's the evil here.

[Murum]

Sure, that makes sense, but the thing I don't get, is in your original comment, you said that after you've experienced everything you can, you'll be happy to say "I'm ready to welcome death as my last experience". But will you be making that decision or would it be forced upon you when the human race falls?
My main concern is not the years, but the decision of whether to quit or not. Having that decision in your hands is wrong. If you were 100% genuine that you'd go after you'd seen all you want to see, would you even go after 50 years if you felt in your heart that you'd seen everything?

matters not to me if it's not forced i'll still choose it i've done all i wanted to do at that point.

[Xeynobrand]

Living for thousands of years will mean you are completely alienated from the rest of humanity. As we age our concept of time changes. Time appears to flow faster than it did when we were younger, everyone experiences this. When we are 4, and hour is a very long time, a day an age. When we are 14 a year seems like a really long time, and the years it takes to graduate from school seems endless. As we move into our 30's and 40's, months fly by, the years blend into each other etc etc.
Should we live for thousands of years the life span of an individual would seem so fleeting, too fleeting to establish normal relationships. It would be a very lonely existence.

Personally, the thought of existing forever, with no end, is just as scary as dying.

[Lycan]

Living for thousands of years will mean you are completely alienated from the rest of humanity. As we age our concept of time changes. Time appears to flow faster than it did when we were younger, everyone experiences this. When we are 4, and hour is a very long time, a day an age. When we are 14 a year seems like a really long time, and the years it takes to graduate from school seems endless. As we move into our 30's and 40's, months fly by, the years blend into each other etc etc.
Should we live for thousands of years the life span of an individual would seem so fleeting, too fleeting to establish normal relationships. It would be a very lonely existence.

Personally, the thought of existing forever, with no end, is just as scary as dying.

This.

I personally think that we are arguing on two different level here. It seems that the argument FOR living forever is more focused on materialistic gains (such as seeing how the world will change, being able to play as many games or watch as many movies as possible etc.), and the argument AGAINST is more focused on the deeper issues such as being able to live with yourself after others have left you, having to survive in a way that you don't draw attention to yourself, and having to relocate every couple of years to avoid suspicion etc.)

As with many of these arguments, the question is asked with a light-hearted approach for example "it'd be sooo cool to live forever...right?" and usually we forget to define the constraints of the scenario we are asking others to discuss.
Let me elaborate:

1. Who asks you to live forever? Is it an illegal operation? Is it even within the bounds of science, or is this magic (assuming magic in this case was possible).
2. (Following on from 1) Who else has access to this decision? Are you the only one, or are there more?
3. What does living forever mean? By agreeing (and living forever), are you immortal or invulnerable? (since the former simply means you don't age, while the latter means you don't die under any circumstances).

I think there are a few more questions, but the point is, we have different views of what the "world/circumstance" surrounding our life-changing decision is like. If it were a world where everyone was freely taking this breakthrough "anti-ageing cream" (hehe) and the government wouldn't treat you like a lab rat, and you wouldn't have to relocate every 30 years because people start noticing you look younger than their children etc. then yes, it may be okay, since it would become normal.

If your decison is not as rosy as above; if it's an illegal drug or magic and you're always on the lookout for security, growing paranoid for the rest of your infinite life, then no way!!

[Lukkii]

I would live forever if and only if it could be an age that i choose, because staying young and having fun for eternity would be awesome! However if that's not the case then i'd most likely just like to enjoy my life while i can and when i get old and tired just go to sleep like and pass away peacefully.