18 replies to this topic

[Damo]

I watched a film a while back called 'Idiocracy', even though it's a pretty silly film it did make a lot of sense in the way that I believe society is heading.

Spoiler in case anyone still wishes to watch the film.

Spoiler

For those who haven't seen nor heard about it. It basically explains that natural selection is indifferent to intelligence, so while the intelligent society are waiting for the right time to conceive, the irresponsible, stupid people out-breed the intelligent. Consequently, the children of the educated are drowned in a sea of promiscuous, illiterate, proletarian peers.

[Bibidiboo]

When I say "spanking", I meant it in the traditional sense; it was a practice which made you realise you've done something wrong. I absolutely don't condone beating of children (like the baby P incident). Absolutely 100% NO. I never had bruises, scars or anything of the sort. I was never spanked anywhere other than on my bottom. This then is the difference between spanking and beating. When we were told off, we'd be asked a few hours later about what we'd learnt. After we explained what we'd done wrong, we'd get ice- cream, or pizza etc. as a 'well done". This stuck like glue.
Personally, I was "spanked" when I was young, and at the same time my cousin (only a year younger than me) wasn't because his parents didn't believe in that sort of stuff.

To this day, I am happy that I was shown right from wrong; I am glad that it was instilled into my core - that some things are bad (we only got spanked at the worst offenses, and after we always got ice-cream )
To this day, my uncle regrets not having more control over my cousin. Now that he's older, he doesn't listen at all to anything my uncle says, and doesn't have the respect my father commands (my father could tell me to go do six hours of gardening in the middle of next week's beta, and I wouldn't say no - not out of fear, but because of respect).

But this is very very much your experience. Your cousin did not become the way he is because he didn't get spanked, it probably would only have made it worse(/cite studies). Then there's personality, and simply how his parents were around him in the first place. There's so many factors to both of those things, also his age. Maybe you're just more responsible for your age, i know i don't always listen to my parents but i do respect them. Anyway, please don't spank your children, you can tell them off in much gentler ways too. I was never spanked, but parents can still be more than scary enough if you do something wrong. Spanking doesn't contribute to that.

For the other fact, your father telling you to do 6 hours of gardening and you doing it? I don't even see that as respect, that's kinda crazy for him to expect. There's times to respect people and times to say no, you deserve personal time as well. I would help my father with many things if he asked, and i'd do gardening, but if I have my own things to do I am going to say so. This is very much my opinion though, and as i get older i'd probably be more helpful. ( Although the 6 hours of gardening would still be ridiculous. )

People watch soaps and see people arguing with parents and they see it as normal. They see chavs drinking and swearing in public and they accept is as "cool" and something they should so as well. To this day I've never heard anyone in my family (or extended family) use profanity in front of my parents).
People are going off the rails because they don't respect authority. Teenagers are being wrapped in bubblewrap and told to do what they want. If they do poorly at school, they get dropped to a lower group (like in the OP). They have to learn the hard way when they hit rock bottom, have no qualifications, and are too immature to be accepted into mainstream society, when all it would have taken was a slap on the wrist and to be told not to do it again.

I can't speak for everyone, since as Dark said, the problems are interrelated and have many roots to them. I was brought up gently but firmly. Risk and reward. My dad would work 10- hour shifts and still make sure we talked about problems we had, either at school or at home. Maybe I'm biased, but I see my cousin and I feel happy that my ass was once sore...

I don't know how it is in the UK, but yes children are told to do what they want, but they should still have some sense of self. I could drop out of school if i wanted to, but why would I? what would the rest of my life hold? People don't learn these things from spanking nor from authority, they need to want these things themselves or it's never gonna happen in the first place. That slap on the wrist would only piss them off more, and make them do even more stupid things. Soaps/Chavs may have a slight influence on such things, but it all comes down to the parents to teach them right from wrong, and spanking/beating(more extreme) is just not necessary.

Edited by Bibidiboo, 22 April 2012 - 10:28 pm.

[Dimez]

I've read studies which show spanking has no positive effect, and is actually harmful.

Bad behaviour is a result of being treated badly, whether that means physical/verbal abuse or simply being ignored. Too many children are treated like shit and grow up thinking it's normal treat others like shit.

The only time hitting is any use is if it straight after (read immediately) the event that needs punishing. EG, A kid is about to pull a pan of boiling water down on him and you smack his hand away.

When I say "spanking", I meant it in the traditional sense; it was a practice which made you realise you've done something wrong. I absolutely don't condone beating of children (like the baby P incident). Absolutely 100% NO. I never had bruises, scars or anything of the sort. I was never spanked anywhere other than on my bottom. This then is the difference between spanking and beating. When we were told off, we'd be asked a few hours later about what we'd learnt. After we explained what we'd done wrong, we'd get ice- cream, or pizza etc. as a 'well done". This stuck like glue.
Personally, I was "spanked" when I was young, and at the same time my cousin (only a year younger than me) wasn't because his parents didn't believe in that sort of stuff.

To this day, I am happy that I was shown right from wrong; I am glad that it was instilled into my core - that some things are bad (we only got spanked at the worst offenses, and after we always got ice-cream )
To this day, my uncle regrets not having more control over my cousin. Now that he's older, he doesn't listen at all to anything my uncle says, and doesn't have the respect my father commands (my father could tell me to go do six hours of gardening in the middle of next week's beta, and I wouldn't say no - not out of fear, but because of respect).

People watch soaps and see people arguing with parents and they see it as normal. They see chavs drinking and swearing in public and they accept is as "cool" and something they should so as well. To this day I've never heard anyone in my family (or extended family) use profanity in front of my parents).
People are going off the rails because they don't respect authority. Teenagers are being wrapped in bubblewrap and told to do what they want. If they do poorly at school, they get dropped to a lower group (like in the OP). They have to learn the hard way when they hit rock bottom, have no qualifications, and are too immature to be accepted into mainstream society, when all it would have taken was a slap on the wrist and to be told not to do it again.


I can't speak for everyone, since as Dark said, the problems are interrelated and have many roots to them. I was brought up gently but firmly. Risk and reward. My dad would work 10- hour shifts and still make sure we talked about problems we had, either at school or at home. Maybe I'm biased, but I see my cousin and I feel happy that my ass was once sore...

I was going to write a long paragraph, but i'll leave it for another non rage induced day.