118 replies to this topic

[Desolator]

I disagree with this point. The system of "heaven for more good deeds than bad, over hell for more bad deeds than good" is a good one, since it promotes good behaviour and people strive to achieve the best reward they can. The creator of this system is irrelevant; if it is a good system which doesn't suppress freedom, then you can't argue with it. If the system was inherently flawed and was unfair, and as a result did suppress freedom, then yes, it could be argued as such.
I just don't see how this system (which rewards for good), could be looked at unfavourably, just because it was created by God (or an entity you disagree with).




I have seen such quotes in the Qur'an, and no, they aren't hidden or omitted (since the scripture has remained unchanged since its revelation). Homosexuality has been illegal for a long time. It is only recently that it has been legalised [Sexual Offences Act 1967 (UK)]. It was legalised from mid to late 1900's, throughout some MEDC's around the world, and since then, more and more countries have begun to accept this change.

so until mid to late 1900's, this was illegal. It isn't just the religious scriptures which condemned this; our own cultures were very openly aggressive towards homosexuality, so it isn't fair to say that religion is to blame on this point.
The penalty was (both in religious scriptures, and in society until it was culturally accepted), used more as a deterrant than an actual punishment.

actually the romans were fine with the whole concept of homosexuality. it was only when christianity became the dominant religion in europe that our social acceptance of homosexuality changed. Since this change in culture goes hand in hand with the change in religion, i think it's fair to say that this change can actually be traced back to religion. and homosexuals are still killed and persecuted in some very religious countries / areas (even in the USA and the supposed freedom for everyone, ppl still hate on homosexuals). the same applies for many european countries.

[mixe]

my 2 cent my uncle is a catholic priest all his botherd about is comunaty and mankind when he went uni it was for pholosaphy not polatics. alltho i am a sceptic it is hard to egnore the advance in quantum phisics is heading to the same peak as the spiritualaty from religon

[twiddlestix]

alltho i am a sceptic it is hard to egnore the advance in quantum phisics is heading to the same peak as the spiritualaty from religon

im not quite sure how you are comparing spirituality and quantum physics, they are in no way similar.

I tried to take in as much of this thread as i could because i didn't want to stumble into a developed debate, but it is a big one, so sorry if im going over things already said.

I do believe that organised religion suppresses freedom, but things like spirituality, a belief in something bigger than yourself, that safe feeling you get in a church, they are all fine with me. i have nothing against that sort of thing. i actually quite enjoy singing quite a few of the nicer hymns and i like churches. however as soon as a religion becomes established, gains popularity it becomes something horrible. forcing your way of living onto someone and telling them they will suffer if they don't do it is such an awful idea, one born of fear of the unknown.
i spent a while working in a catholic primary school, i was looking after a young girl with severe autism, she could barely speak, let alone read or count, but she was forced into praying several times a day, going to church and sitting quietly for an hour, not understanding what was going on and why she had to do it. as her carer it was my responsibility to make sure she did these things. i spoke with the class teacher and the head mistress about letting her skip these things, but they insisted she joined in. it was heartbreaking for me.
this kind of indoctrination is what i hate about organised religions, the children arent given a chance to choose what they believe.

and then there is the millions of deaths and the hundreds of years of scientific stagnation that can be blamed solely on organised religion, i not going to get into those!

also something dark said about defining truth with respect to science, earlier in this thread. As i see it science is truth. science is our attempt to describe and explain the universe as best we can, our theories are as close to the fundamental truths of the universe, when we take into account all we can observe, and have ever observed. the fact that when something new happens, that we havent observed before, we can adjust our theories to work these new observations and so make it the truth again.

so yeah that's what i think...

[mixe]

every action has a equal and oposit reaction. so on that line of thought now looks at anti matter could this not be the fabric of hevon or even hell or both ? allso is the entire universe 3d ? is 3d max percevable perception ?

[twiddlestix]

every action has a equal and oposit reaction. so on that line of thought now looks at anti matter could this not be the fabric of hevon or even hell or both ? allso is the entire universe 3d ? is 3d max percevable perception ?

every action has an equal and opposite reaction that is a very classical way of thinking, it is in fact Newton's third law of motion. you cant really use that line of thought when thinking about non classical particles such as antimatter.
the idea of antimatter being the fabric of heaven or hell, seeing as i find it very hard to understand why people believe such things exist, i don't think they are connected in any way. but hey, the universe is a crazy, wonderful place, maybe your right!

[ZeCooL]

I used to to know this theoretical physics professor at my university, one time someone said that antimatter and hell thingy, he stomped his hands on his desk so hard it broke. then he asked the student : "What is your religion?" he said "Christianity.". The professor then proceeded with "I will from now on call your religion as "bullshit", because that may be the true meaning of Christianity, of course I am clueless about the meaning of Christianity, but as I am clueless it may just be that, and you think it is fine to talk about things you are clueless about, so shall I."
The student had nothing to say.

Antimatter has a precise and limiting definition and is defined by science, its reactions to matter and antimatter are defined, even tested, you can't go "wildcard" and say "Antimatter.. hmm... I have no idea WTF that is... TAAADDAA.. It is HELL!!!". Antimatter is a term defined and used by physics, if you don't know what it is you have no right to use it. No Right.

Edited by ZeCooL, 09 May 2012 - 02:02 pm.

[mixe]

was'nt it Albert Einstien that said only god could of created an equation so perfect ? bet he was smarter than your toff of a teacher is it not a therory that the creation of this universe was when matter and anti matter collided ? also on topic i think its people that kill people not religion. that is only used as an excuse. In this day we kill in the name of democracy but apparently that ok, yes it did prevent scientific development but then so does patent law but that's another topic tbh ^^ yet agen back to me saying its greed and power which consume ppl that cause all these problems the rest is smoke and mirrors.