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Evolution & The Big Bang - Proven or Not?


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#1 Prophet

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:24 pm

Edit by Darkademic: This thread was split from the Tolerance is Condescending thread.

 

 Agnostic and atheist are two very different things. I think atheism is just as bad as theism, both are taking sides in a debate that has no evidence to support either stance.

 
I'm just going to direct you to a post made by Dark in 2012 - he did a better job of explaining why that's wrong than I ever could.


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#2 Devlin1991

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:30 pm

I'm just going to direct you to a post made by Dark in 2012 - he did a better job of explaining why that's wrong than I ever could.

 

Excellent video, it actually made me think about a few things regarding semantics that I myself are guilty of (guessing that is why you linked me it).

 

I am atheist, in the sense that I have not been provided with any evidence so far that resulted in me believing in any god concept put forward to me. I don't disregard the idea of their being such a thing as a god because to do so would require me to know every possible god concept that would be put forward until my death. I also struggle to relate to people who blindly follow one of the current religions when there is so much evidence disproving them. Faith that something is real when there is evidence otherwise is a delusion which in almost any other case would result in you being diagnosed with psychosis,


Edited by Devlin1991, 04 August 2013 - 08:31 pm.

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#3 mixe

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:46 pm

Einstein must of had faith in his theory's to carry on and try to prove them

also on the one true god thing my uncle who is a catholic priest used to chuckle at that and say its the same god

I think the main 3 things that all religions have in common is the preaching of charity empathy and love for one another

what does atheism teach ?
 


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#4 Devlin1991

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:03 pm

Einstein must of had faith in his theory's to carry on and try to prove them

also on the one true god thing my uncle who is a catholic priest used to chuckle at that and say its the same god

I think the main 3 things that all religions have in common is the preaching of charity empathy and love for one another

what does atheism teach ?
 

 

Atheism doesn't "teach" anything in the sense that religion doesn't "teach" anything, you educate people with facts. If you mean what moral and social values does atheism promote, none. I don't feel it is necessary to have a religion to be able to teach moral and social values to a person, society as a whole embraces values which is beneficial to it and some things come for free in our genetics. Empathy is one of them (it's why you feel sad when watching sad movies, or fear during scarey ones), by default human beings partially mimic the inferred emotional state of those around them (or that we see or imagine via books, etc). We should be teaching children to embrace certain values because we have learned they lead to a happy, healthy society, not because the imaginary man in the sky will send us to hell if we don't follow them.


Edited by Devlin1991, 04 August 2013 - 09:04 pm.

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#5 mixe

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:18 pm

and yet agene the same old thing of thinking that if there was a god he would be a man / human

 

Muslims fasting is a good example of teaching people to have empathy with poor people who starve this is also used in the religion to promote charity

its this way of thinking which has eventually led us away from totally free capitalism into the society now where I pay tax so you can fuck with code at big school


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#6 Devlin1991

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:34 pm

and yet agene the same old thing of thinking that if there was a god he would be a man / human

 

Muslims fasting is a good example of teaching people to have empathy with poor people who starve this is also used in the religion to promote charity

its this way of thinking which has eventually led us away from totally free capitalism into the society now where I pay tax so you can fuck with code at big school

 

 

.... your post makes no sense mixe.
Where did I say that if there was a god he would be human?
What has Muslim fasting got to do with me suggesting that we should promote good values in children through example and history not by giving them a fear of repercussion after death?

Are you insinuating that you are somehow losing money by paying for my university education which you also seem to be demeaning ("so you can fuck with code at big school")?

 

On that last point you will find that university graduates make significantly more money over their lifetime than non graduates and pay off their (for my 4 year course, £7280) "free" education and then some in tax, even on my estimated starting wage after graduation I will pay off that in just over 2 years vs earning £8 an hour in a retail/service job. Then every year after that I will be paying £3680 more in tax than someone working at £8/hr.


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#7 mixe

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:49 pm

"imaginary man in the sky " why a man ?

 

what im saying is it its the values taught by religion that has eventually led to me paying tax for you to fuck with code at big school

oh and as for the estimate part well then you get into the big wide world you will learn that estimates are full of shit

ask your old man if his estimates are ever the same as the final invoice


Edited by mixe, 04 August 2013 - 10:01 pm.

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#8 Devlin1991

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:57 pm

"imaginary man in the sky " why a man ?

I'm using man in the sense that it's would have to be a sentient being in order to make decisions. I'm also quite sure the bible states that humans were made "in his image" either it means "is sentient and has moral values" or "has the same physical appearance". Both of which would make calling it a man valid.

 

Are you going to address the other two points?


Edited by Devlin1991, 04 August 2013 - 09:57 pm.

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#9 omphin

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:10 pm

don't you think that Atheism which leans itself on darwinism is just as much a faith as something like christanity?


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#10 mixe

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:22 pm

I'm using man in the sense that it's would have to be a sentient being in order to make decisions. I'm also quite sure the bible states that humans were made "in his image" either it means "is sentient and has moral values" or "has the same physical appearance". Both of which would make calling it a man valid.

 

Are you going to address the other two points?

I may sound blunt but such is life fact is some one paid for me to fuck with spanners and cars and then for me to learn how to fit shitters that is charity

 

and now im doing the charitable thing by chipping in so you can fuck with code

the other 2 points are well pointless until you pay a big tax bill so the next Muppet can go big school until then its just speculation


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#11 Devlin1991

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:32 pm

I may sound blunt but such is life fact is some one paid for me to fuck with spanners and cars and then for me to learn how to fit shitters that is charity

 

and now im doing the charitable thing by chipping in so you can fuck with code

the other 2 points are well pointless until you pay a big tax bill so the next Muppet can go big school until then its just speculation

 

Charity implies you have a choice to help others and you chose to do it at your own expense, you have no choice in regards to your income tax. The government knows that over my lifetime I will pay more in tax than they give me in "subsidies" so it's a no-brainer for them to front me the money. Same goes for when you studied plumbing(modern apprenticeship I'm assuming).

 

The other two points I'm talking about are the other two questions in my previous post, your partially answered one of them.

What has Muslim fasting got to do with me suggesting that we should promote good values in children through example and history not by giving them a fear of repercussion after death?

Are you insinuating that you are somehow losing money by paying for my university education which you also seem to be demeaning ("so you can fuck with code at big school")?


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#12 mixe

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:42 pm

no I pay my tax so you can maintain /advance society and vote for governments to enforce this through democracy rather than let the burden fall on the people who give a fuck

 

What has Muslim fasting got to do with me suggesting that we should promote good values in children through example and history not by giving them a fear of repercussion after death?

 

the fasting was to teach empathy / charity   fear of repercussion after death was a good way of stopping us all becoming mercenary's and in some ways was the basis of modern law

 

Are you insinuating that you are somehow losing money by paying for my university education which you also seem to be demeaning ("so you can fuck with code at big school")?

 

like all investments you loose out till it pays off and even then there's a risk it wont pay off  so how old are you and how much tax have you paid since 16 ? didn't you say after you get qualified you was going to fuck of outa uk ? also if you do stay in uk then the chances are after your 42k you will be pumping into a pension for the tax relief and then what about the % of people who don't get the fat job ?

 

have I covered it all enough for ya ?


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#13 Devlin1991

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:31 am

D3eQSpT.gif

 

I'm off before I lose my sanity or cause any irreparable damage to my keyboard.


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#14 mixe

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:08 pm

D3eQSpT.gif

 

I'm off before I lose my argument or cause any irreparable damage to my keyboard.

there ya go fixed it for you ;)


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#15 Darkademic

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:19 pm

Einstein must of had faith in his theory's to carry on and try to prove them

also on the one true god thing my uncle who is a catholic priest used to chuckle at that and say its the same god

I think the main 3 things that all religions have in common is the preaching of charity empathy and love for one another

what does atheism teach ?
 

 

don't you think that Atheism which leans itself on darwinism is just as much a faith as something like christanity?

 

Faith is belief without (or in the face of) the evidence of the senses. If science is based on faith, then everything (and therefore nothing) is based on faith. In order for the word to have meaning, you have to distinguish faith from science/evidence/reason.


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#16 mixe

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:38 pm

you must have faith in you unproven theory to then go on and try to prove it regardless of the amount of stumbling blocks on the way there must of been faith in the theory that the higs boson existed for them to spend years looking for it one could say that people with no faith have no imagination


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