63 replies to this topic

[ReaverMage]

erm just saying the fact that there are lots of people for whom we provide lives of luxury doesn't mean trying to stop that for some of them isn't worth it...
"Someone just murdered my brother!" "Who cares? Even if we catch him there'll still be loads of mass murderers... If you want no murders why not just incarcerate everyone?"

[Darkademic]

As opposed to what? It is basic human nature that where there is poverty, there will also be prosperity. And the former always outnumbers the latter by a very large margin. If you got rid of monarchy, you'd still have celebrities, corporations, oligarchs and other criminals leeching money from ordinary people. At least monarchy acts as the face of a country. I would rather my taxes paid for their luxury than that of politicians and business magnates.

If you want complete equality, communism is the answer. And we all know how that turned out for for USSR.

Might be worth reading some of the past debates we've had here; I couldn't be more anti-communist if I tried.

I don't want complete equality, I want the abolition of the initiation of force.

Stalin was the face of a country, he was essentially the monarch of the USSR.

[ReaverMage]

Sorry for the double post but I think we also have to consider the possibility that the monarchy generate more income from tourism than the taxes we pay to them.

[Darkademic]

Sorry for the double post but I think we also have to consider the possibility that the monarchy generate more income from tourism than the taxes we pay to them.

And Hitler saved Germany from economic ruin.

Thought I may as well get Godwin's Law out of the way.

[ReaverMage]

And Hitler saved Germany from economic ruin.

Thought I may as well get Godwin's Law out of the way.

I don't see the monarchy slaughtering minorities... Although that may change when charles comes to power

[Darkademic]

I don't see the monarchy slaughtering minorities... Although that may change when charles comes to power

Would National Socialism have been a good system if Hitler hadn't slaughtered minorities or started WWII?

Edit: And before anyone goes nuts I'm not equating the British monarchy with the Nazi party, I'm just using the Nazis as an example of why economic benefit does not justify coercion, or more broadly, why the ends do not justify the means.

[Wookybear]

Hitler was actually an incredible leader. He unified a broken country and took control of half a continent with it.

don't get me wrong, his ideals and methods were fucked up. But his leadership was immense.

[ReaverMage]

Would National Socialism have been a good system if Hitler hadn't slaughtered minorities or started WWII?

I don't think that's particularly relevant since as you said yourself the monarchy fulfill no role whatsoever so basically all they have to do is sit there and they generate tourism. Basically we're paying taxes to generate tourism to stimulate the economy. Whether you think paying taxes in the first place is moral is another matter altogether.

[Donkzy]

I mean for me, keep em, but don't subsidise them, All the costs for security they should cover themselves, and all their massive castles and mansions should be taken away from them, but allowing them to live there but pay rent like the rest of us have to do. They have the ability to do this as they own lots of land and there not really short of money anyway.

They are a part of our history and we should respect that, but I can't see them really doing anything for our future as they have no power and are basically a tourist attraction which takes away from the memory of our powerful kings and queens of old

[Quafe]

Might be worth reading some of the past debates we've had here; I couldn't be more anti-communist if I tried.

I don't want complete equality, I want the abolition of the initiation of force.

Stalin was the face of a country, he was essentially the monarch of the USSR.

There's nothing inherently wrong with communism, only how its growth and development is executed. You certainly can't argue with results, and I honestly doubt any other political system would be able to get USSR out of the shithole it was in at the end of WW2.

But the whole deontological liberalism, abolition of the initiation of force, etc, it just doesn't work. It might in a perfect world and a perfect society, a utopia. Our world and societies that populate it are too imperfect, and I'm afraid that nothing short of an Extinction Level Event, a complete restart, a reboot from scratch, could change that.

Having said that, monarchy as a problem seems rather insignificant is the global scope of things

[ReaverMage]

[ReaverMage]

There's nothing inherently wrong with communism, only how its growth and development is executed. You certainly can't argue with results, and I honestly doubt any other political system would be able to get USSR out of the shithole it was in at the end of WW2.

But the whole deontological liberalism, abolition of the initiation of force, etc, it just doesn't work. It might in a perfect world and a perfect society, a utopia. Our world and societies that populate it are too imperfect, and I'm afraid that nothing short of an Extinction Level Event, a complete restart, a reboot from scratch, could change that.

Having said that, monarchy as a problem seems rather insignificant is the global scope of things

Oh no.
Please don't provoke dark like that, I can only hold him back for so long

If you want to see what he's going to say please read some of the other threads in the philosophy and economics section

[Darkademic]

Hitler was actually an incredible leader. He unified a broken country and took control of half a continent with it.

don't get me wrong, his ideals and methods were fucked up. But his leadership was immense.

There's nothing inherently wrong with communism, only how its growth and development is executed. You certainly can't argue with results, and I honestly doubt any other political system would be able to get USSR out of the shithole it was in at the end of WW2.

But the whole deontological liberalism, abolition of the initiation of force, etc, it just doesn't work. It might in a perfect world and a perfect society, a utopia. Our world and societies that populate it are too imperfect, and I'm afraid that nothing short of an Extinction Level Event, a complete restart, a reboot from scratch, could change that.

As much as I wish I had time to debate all of the above, I don't, so all I can say is that I absolutely disagree. In fact the "there's nothing inherently wrong with communism" part made me throw up a little.

And I already have argued with the results re: the USSR: http://www.darkreave.../page__hl__ussr

Another time perhaps.

[ReaverMage]

In fact the "there's nothing inherently wrong with communism" part made me throw up a little.

See what I mean?

Oh Dark, don't you wish we could go back go those good times when we had 98346593 post long debates? Those memories :')

[Quafe]

I'm kinda busy myself, what with being at work and all... We should totally talk about it on Mumble while waiting for servers to go up on Saturday night!

[Raflz]

I used to be be quite anti-monarchy but I couldn't care less anymore. If we did end up getting rid we'd have people like Boris Johnston and Simon Cowell running for President. Better the devil you know.