302 replies to this topic

[mixe]

looks like it will be in less than 6 months so how will you vote ?

 

me and misses think we should be out of euro but now that we have a place in spain and plan to move there we will be voting to stay in

[Demondim]

Traitors

I also have a place in Spain, but practically nothing Eurozone could offer UK would make me change my mind.

I will 100% vote to withdraw from the corrupt, self-elected bullshit they call the EU.

[Omimace]

Gotta be honest I know were some people sit and its not on the fence with me. I struggle with this one as there are so many pros and cons and arguments for both sides of the story, it is heavily influenced and biased by both politicians and the media throwing further confusion and emotion in one should be a simple decision based on solid facts.

 

The whole scenario is now a mess, and its hard to see how any uniformed person can make a decision or how they can even become informed without hitting bias. Too much of this is now about opinion and not fact.

 

One thing the suades me is my belief in a combined human future where individual countries maintain there identities and traditions yet being part of something bigger. The politics should protect these identities allowing people to be proud to be British/English while also proud to be European the same as Germans should be proud to be German etc etc. Unity should unite people and politics it should not interfere with traditions and nationality.

 

We have a wide array of nationalities playing AA and those who talk to me on TS know I take some pride in it as I don't like guilds that limit themselves to one nation, communication should be the limit not nationality like with us its English speaking/listing requirement. I am proud to be in a multi national guild yet all my houses fly the flag of the United Kingdom.

 

So I find myself sitting on the fence dreaming of a different question, not should we stay or should we go but what should be done to create the original dream/vision we have all become disillusioned from by politics and media.

[mixe]

well technically they ent self elected we have European elections

 

 lets face it this country is going down the shit hole regardless of being in the EU or not as we are effective paying massive amounts of tax for over inflated public sector pensions

 

yes you can bat on about immigration but chances are there probably more immigrants in this country from outside the EU then there is from the EU and its been like that since after the war  Africa Jamaica Nigeria Pakistan India China ect ect

 

and yet if you talk about integration you get called a racist like I have been called by dkr members in the past

 

the benefits bill was blocked by the house of lords not the EU

we are the only country in the EU with a needs based benefit system rather than a contribution based one (this is the one that pisses me of most)

[Salamol]

Gotta be honest I know were some people sit and its not on the fence with me. I struggle with this one as there are so many pros and cons and arguments for both sides of the story, it is heavily influenced and biased by both politicians and the media throwing further confusion and emotion in one should be a simple decision based on solid facts.
 
The whole scenario is now a mess, and its hard to see how any uniformed person can make a decision or how they can even become informed without hitting bias. Too much of this is now about opinion and not fact.

All of this is very important. Some people are bad at putting views across but spend time researching both sides, looking at a wealth of evidence and have a high degree of confidence in the accuracy of the facts, I'm one of those people. Other people like to talk very loudly and do so very well, they get heard. But they do so without looking at all the facts on either side, using the relatively small amount of information that they have to push an agenda.

Where this referendum is concerned, I haven't looked into it properly because there's so much misinformation. Or rather, what we get by staying IN isn't even certain (the recent document is just a draft and is missing some key figures), and by pulling OUT we enter unknown territory where nobody is sure what will actually happen. When the two sides start their campaigns, it'll be easier to make a decision, but even then it's best to look at both sides. At the very least scrutinise both sides of the argument for the particular thing that's making you lean one way or the other.

Even the general election results have little impact on most people's little bubble of life with opinions formed and held based on outrage directed towards hearsay of situations they've seen on TV. The EU is even further away and affects the average person even less. Whichever way people vote, I imagine their decision is going to be based solely on spin or propaganda. The whole truth and accurate, unbiased facts are long and boring. They're the reason we have dozens of reports by professionals 50~ pages long each week commissioned by the government on things like smart meters, road safety, the Independent Living Fund and energy providers.

Drunk Barry in the pub might tell you this and that, and he might not shut up about it, probably very convincing after a few pints... but he probably only picked it up from Sometimes-Sober Steve the night before, who heard it from a caller on a late night radio show. Do your own research!

[Monkeypooh]

in out shake it all about ....the whole question is going to be redundant in the course of the next 12 months and the massive increase of politcal/economic migration from out side the eu to the inside ...sorry mixe soon the maghreb africa route via spain will be in use ..watch even more fences go up along the internal boarders in europe ...the resulting strain will try even the most liberal of conscience ....at this point weather we all pull together or splinter down to even smaller nation/city states or find a way to help rebalance the pull of the richer/safer europe to the rest of the world is the one we will have to decide on ..add in to the mix the slow down in the world economy with its resulting destabilization of boarder line states ...no longer just children's shoes on the shores of greek islands but machine guns fired at boarders .....

 

on a more serious note ...did u see Jamie Vardy's goal the other nite ...that or Dele Aile/s for goal of the year ?

[Aumento]

*ting*

Heads or tails

Just need to decide which is in and which is out

Best of 3?

[Chuey]

The idea of national identity and sovereignty is one that's slowly being eroded as the world becomes a smaller place. Battle-lines are drawn by two ideologies, Religion and Capitalism, neither of which I'm a fan of, as they're all about the most powerful keeping themselves in power. Best the rest of us can do is plod along under the current establishment and hope if we ever reach retirement we're able to enjoy it before being stuck down in our prime by god know what.

 

As for the In or out of Europe question? Best way to consider it is look at Norway, and they still pay a lot into the EU despite not being a member, think it was worked out our EU costs would drop by only 6% if we were to exit but still have trade agreements so... *shrug*

[Fozzies]

being the natural sceptic that i am ( im an engineer), im guessing there is something certain politicians within the EU believe it will gain by alienating itself from the british public over the astrange verdict, well, the majority of us, but im fooked if i can see it, unless elements in control of that enquiry acutally want us to withdraw... cant quite believe they don't value our economic contributions over and above the wish to see us sink....what am i missing?

 

TLDR: massive misuse of commas

[mixe]

banking and finance sectors

[Fozzies]

not understanding mixe, our banking and finance sectors are surely our major contribution to europe, and what makes us an important part of it from their perspective. Its in their best interests to destroy our banks etc?  surely that would also destroy the eec, or you mean they would hope to bail us out like greece and take us over economically?   I can see that a gradual transfer of banking from uk to other areas would suit some nato states, but not an instant one, and not one where the uk wasn't severely weakened by the process

[mixe]

they would still be a major contribution to the EU if they was based in Paris regulated by Brussels and not having the pesky uk vetoing any regulation  

 

but if you want to get your tin foil hat on then answer these questions

 

who invaded Libya Iraq and kicked it off with Syria causing the refuge crisis in the 1st place

 

what country started the finance crisis back in 07   

 

could the US  be playing the age old game of divide and conquer ?

[Chuey]

Odd you say that Mixe I've been wondering recently is this all leading to us becoming the 51st state

[Poison]

I am 100% voting out.

 

I used to like David Cameron until he came back from begging in Europe and got nothing. We should be dictating to the EU not the other way around. They need us a lot more than we need them!!

 

This rubbish about Europe making trading with us harder is just scare tactics from the In campaign. We import vastly more than we export so it makes no sense for the EU to impose additional costs as we would just retaliate with the same which would impact on their trade more than ours.

 

I also find it embarrassing that our Prime Minister has to beg smaller, weaker European states for permission to change our laws.We are the Second biggest economy in Europe and have little or no say. Is this ok? I think not. We should be dictating the terms to the EU not the other way around.

 

Also one thing that is not being publicly reported is that Europe, again, is on the verge of another financial catastrophe with several German Banks making HUGE loses and potentially will need bailing out. Who do you think they will come to for money again? The answer is us. We are not part of the Eurozone and so this, like Greece, is not our problem. If we were out we could not be made to bail them out again.

 

With regard immigration again the EU are trying to dictate terms to us. If we leave we dictate the terms of our immigration policy. I have no problem with skilled migrants coming into the UK but we are forced to take anyone with a European passport. Is it right that we take an illiterate EU citizen over a skilled educated Indian? Of course it isn't.

 

Lastly anyone who votes stay in is scared of change. Change is good and without change people and countries do not develop and grow. If the human race as a whole kept everything the same we would still be living in caves. The EU is outdated, undemocratic, slow to react to any changes in the world and is slowly falling apart. I want the politicians I have voted for to make the decisions for my country rather than some un-elected body based in a different country  who do not have my interests at heart.

[mixe]

ok so having a trade deficit  is a good thing ? also what would that trade deficit look like if the pound dropped bellow parity with the euro

 

also our political system has become fascist probably the most out of all EU country's  so wouldn't it be a good idea to stay in Europe just in case you needed an escape plan

 

and talking of escape plans tin foil hat time again ^^  what happens if we do enter another mini ice age in the next few years limiting freedom of movement in a time like that would make you sick as a PIGS  

[mixe]

well its all warming up now

 

will be interesting to see how this pans out

 

pound is tanking and will tank more come crunch day and if we vote to stay in will prolly rally 30% in a week some good dosh to be made if you got the balls to play the fx with leverage

 

also the only world leader who thinks uk should leave the EU is Putin that should tell you something right there 

Edited by mixe, 23 February 2016 - 12:30 am.