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Does Free Will Exist?


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#1 ShaLLByte

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:08 am

Since there haven't been many topics in this forum for a while I thought I would throw out this question for you all.

 

Does free will exist?

 

Since we are all humans made of atoms and these atoms obey the laws of physics (whether we know them or not) surely that means that if we had all the required equations/knowledge and computing power we could predict exactly what a given human being would say/do etc.

 

Therefore emotions like love/hate could fundamentally be written down in an equation form (although no doubt a long one)....


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#2 Wookybear

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:03 pm

Short answer, I think life in almost any form is borderline chaotic and that even if you applied an infinite amount of resources you would never be able to 100% predict an action/reaction.


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#3 ShaLLByte

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:14 pm

Short answer, I think life in almost any form is borderline chaotic and that even if you applied an infinite amount of resources you would never be able to 100% predict an action/reaction.

 

But the laws of physics whether we know them or not are being calculated in the background to determine the outcome...doesn't that fact make it theoretically possible?


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#4 Howl

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:13 pm

But the laws of physics whether we know them or not are being calculated in the background to determine the outcome...doesn't that fact make it theoretically possible?

 

Even if an individual's decision can be predicted, if two individual's would make different decisions does that not mean there is still free will? What you are measuring is the process and parameters in which that decision is made.


Edited by Howl, 11 June 2014 - 04:14 pm.

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#5 Rob

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:19 pm

But the laws of physics whether we know them or not are being calculated in the background to determine the outcome...doesn't that fact make it theoretically possible?

 

Are they?

 

Is time discreet or continuous? If the latter, than the number of calculations would be infinite and therefore impossible.

 

Also, free will has to exist (IMO) as there is always uncertainty.


Edited by Rob, 11 June 2014 - 04:21 pm.

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#6 Monkeypooh

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:34 pm

if u believe in infinite possibilities of choice then u have a infinite number of possible outcomes ...so that means no such thing as free will, as all out comes can and have happened... in between the choice and outcome is where u will find god 

 

got to love a paradox


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#7 mixe

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:24 pm

free will was that a film about a fish ?


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#8 uTweaker

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:26 pm

I think free will does exist But looking at it from my side of the fence, I think a lot of peoples actions (purchases) are controlled by using science (subliminal stimuli, false logic/assumptions, addiction, perceived peer pressure) and this takes away a portion of free will from each of us in the name of profit.

 

Think of it like this, after you exercise water tastes better, a lot of these methods use our own bodies survival instincts against us in the name of profit.

 

We all spend money on things that we don't need and maybe even later think "why did I even buy 'item'"


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#9 Khally

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:28 pm

Wasn't there already a thread about this?

 

Anyway, my take on it:

 

- The answer to that ultimately lies on whether or not the particles in the Universe we live in follow specific rules of cause-effect. Because if they do, then free will is an illusion, as particles were always destined to move in a certain way since the beginning of, well, everything. BUT, since I don't know nearly enough about quantum mechanics nor uncertainty principles, I can't form an opinion on the subject.


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#10 Jammylambo

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:17 am

"You,’ your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. Who you are is nothing but a pack of neurons … although we appear to have free will, in fact, our choices have already been predetermined for us and we cannot change that."

 

 

 

sums my thoughts of free will up in a far more academic approach. my choices in life are based on jolts of electricity sending messages throughout my brain and body. do i smoke because i really want to. or because theres a nagging constant need for nicotine being relayed to my brain. human beings are far too easy to group together under headlines for free will to exist. even trivial matters like style and trend. their is such a small amount of options out there that's free will cant possibly exist. and even if it did in some small manner, our need to conform to our surroundings quashes that out in the first place. human beings are too weak to handle free will. and instead we readily queue under the latest acceptable label.


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#11 mixe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:43 am

lots of choices i make are on a flick of a coin you telling me that the side it lands on has already been predetermined ? 


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#12 Jammylambo

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:13 am

but then its not your choice. your at the will of the coin :P 


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#13 Khally

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:24 am

lots of choices i make are on a flick of a coin you telling me that the side it lands on has already been predetermined ? 

 

Unless quantum mechanics and uncertainty principles in fact intervene, then everything leading to that since the beginning of the Universe was just cause and effect at a sub-atomic level.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to correct me if I'm wrong about the two themes I mentioned at first, since they are two of my main gaps in my knowledge of physics.


Edited by Khally, 23 June 2014 - 11:24 am.

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#14 Xiomaro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 02:30 pm

I'd like to believe that free will exists but I think it probably is just an illusion. You're a product of your nature (genetics) and the influences of people and things around you. It's complicated but it's pretty deterministic when you think about it.

 

Most of the time all the factors are too vast and complex for us to accurately predict what someone is going to do or the choices they're going to make. But with a bit of knowledge about a person's character and their background you can vaguely predict what someone is going to do. Like the whole once a cheater always a cheater thing, without some kind of intervention people stick to certain patterns. Sometimes intervention can be ignored or people can be completely oblivious to it. Maybe that's a character thing too - maybe some people are more prone to accepting intervention than others.

 

It's really mind boggling. I wonder if it'll ever be possible to prove one way or the other?


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#15 mixe

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:53 pm

can free will and capital co exist 

 

at some point after the age of 7 we start to give a fcuk more about capital than we do free will 


Edited by mixe, 06 July 2014 - 05:55 pm.

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#16 Aralon

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:11 pm

On this topic, my favourite response from a game (who ever can guess the name of the game gets browny points!) was this:

 

 

“But suppose you throw a coin enough times…suppose one day, it lands on its edge.”

“…We each play out the parts fate has written for us. Free will is an illusion”


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