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Does anyone here actually believe in God?


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#81 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:04 pm

Your position remains unclear to me, and does not seem to fit with that of Einstein.

No-one can truly 'know' anything.

Scientific inquiry requires *something* beyond reason and evidence.


Do you agree or disagree with the above statements?

---

Re: Einstein's agnostic atheism: I know he rejected the term atheist, but that's because he equated it with certainty about God's non-existence, which is not the most widely understood definition of atheism; that simply being a lack of belief in god(s). It's a semantic issue, so it doesn't matter either way.

Edited by Darkademic, 26 March 2012 - 03:18 pm.

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#82 HellsingDS

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:19 pm

Like I say, you're taking what I say too literally... you're not stopping to actually understand what I'm saying. It does not matter if I tell you I disagree as we will simply continue going in a circle where you continually to sum my views into little niches that clearly make no sense. I refuse to take part in such an exercise of futility which is why I'm referring you to go and read Einsteins work instead.

You are trying to create your own personal Einstein... I am referring you to his actual words.

Although he did not believe in a personal God, he indicated that he would never seek to combat such belief because "such a belief seems to me preferable to the lack of any transcendental outlook."
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"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."
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#83 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:33 pm

How can I understand what you're saying if you won't define your position in clear terms? Can your position be defined? Or would any attempt to do so be putting you into "silly little niches that clearly make no sense".

Forget the word atheism - the word itself is irrelevant. I said that Einstein rejected the idea that you can be certain about God's non-existence. Please explain how that is "creating my own personal Einstein", is that not an accurate representation of what Einstein said?
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#84 HellsingDS

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:40 pm

Like I've said, I've already explained my points. If you do not yet understand them then you've not spent enough time reflecting on them or you simply do not agree and seek to make a mockery of the whole thing... or maybe this even goes back to the reaction of a theist to an atheist. Ask yourself, are you really taking any of this in?

Edited by HellsingDS, 26 March 2012 - 03:41 pm.

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"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."
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#85 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:56 pm

Like I've said, I've already explained my points. If you do not yet understand them then you've not spent enough time reflecting on them or you simply do not agree and seek to make a mockery of the whole thing... or maybe this even goes back to the reaction of a theist to an atheist. Ask yourself, are you really taking any of this in?


If anyone else is reading this please let me know if I have actually missed something, have been unfair in my questioning, or have otherwise attempted to "make a mockery of the whole thing", because as I see it, these accusations are completely unjustified.
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#86 HellsingDS

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:49 pm

No-one can truly 'know' anything.

The way you emphasized the 'know' told me exactly where you were planning to go if I was to agree. If I was to agree you would start using the most basic of knowledge to 'prove me wrong' in the same way you used the most improbable thing to argue against Rob (which you had to continually reinforce). A rather senseless approach to a debate as its a literal attack rather than one pertaining to what his actual argument was (not to dismiss possibilities so easily).

Scientific inquiry requires *something* beyond reason and evidence.

I said revolutionary progression of science where one highly agreed upon theory is dismissed in light of a new one or a similar instance in which a theory may be heavily resisted against by the current 'logical' way of thinking. You've taken what I've said and applied it to all scientific progress which completely misses the point. I also told you imagination was required and have continually explained to you what it is.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Imagination

Edit: I've explained myself quite simply as I'm sure others will agree.
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"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."
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#87 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:07 pm

The way you emphasized the 'know' told me exactly where you were planning to go if I was to agree. If I was to agree you would start using the most basic of knowledge to 'prove me wrong' in the same way you used the most improbable thing to argue against Rob (which you had to continually reinforce). A rather senseless approach to a debate as its a literal attack rather than one pertaining to what his actual argument was (not to dismiss possibilities so easily).


You make it sound like I'm trying to trick you or something. It's an incredibly simple question, and you still haven't answered it. It's one of the must fundamental questions of philosophy. Can we know anything?

Since you're claiming to know of specific paths to knowledge, one can only assume that your answer is "yes".

I said revolutionary progression of science where one highly agreed upon theory is dismissed in light of a new one or a similar instance in which a theory may be heavily resisted against by the current 'logical' way of thinking. You've taken what I've said and applied it to all scientific progress which completely misses the point. I also told you imagination was needed.


There is no reason to overcomplicate this so much.

If you agree that we can know things, this second question simply pertains to how we know things.

I argue that reason and evidence are the only fundamental means of acquiring knowledge. I would also argue that imagination in and of itself cannot lead directly to knowledge, it has to be a derivative of something experienced, or already known to be true.

If you disagree, you have to provide an example of your process in action, otherwise the point is moot.
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#88 HellsingDS

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:15 pm

I disagree therefore I am moot. Case closed. I really cba anymore :P

Edited by HellsingDS, 26 March 2012 - 05:15 pm.

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#89 Sketch

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:21 pm

All I have to say on the subject of a God or any God, is that I have never been given reason to consider the possibly of its existence. I am not an atheist because that would Imply that I had a stance on it. Or cared enough to let the world know that I deliberately went around not believing in something that I didn't believe in; which would be pretty dumb.
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#90 Dispatchio

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:31 pm

Hellsing, really interested to know more about your views :)

When you say:

In the end the world is not a logical place though, life is not logical... logic is a purely human concept that tries to make sense of the world and control it.


Can you explain why you think life isn't logical?
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#91 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:52 pm

All I have to say on the subject of a God or any God, is that I have never been given reason to consider the possibly of its existence. I am not an atheist because that would Imply that I had a stance on it. Or cared enough to let the world know that I deliberately went around not believing in something that I didn't believe in; which would be pretty dumb.


Actually, it doesn't imply that you have a "stance on it" - assuming you mean actively thinking about it. If you have no stance, then by definition you are an atheist.
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#92 Darkademic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:09 pm

Thread derailed.

Unproductive posts deleted.

Locked.
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